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Post by eausavage on Feb 4, 2011 19:25:45 GMT -5
About your quoting is amazing, i guess that's the meaning of been in love, no matter how much time you have, you holds every single memory, and even if the time is few still has an hudge importance. Oh, you will like LAOD then, Maria. It's such a charming movie about love in a less than perfect situation. Not as painful as BBM (since it's a rom-com) but just as touching. well Sasha a comedy have so much to tell, smiling is important as much as strong emotions, and even if a movie is soft, without too many claims, the main thing is that at least something remains inside you, that touch your emotions, movies are all about this emotions.... Nothing is trivial....<3
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Post by eausavage on Feb 4, 2011 19:32:36 GMT -5
Thanks evie for your nice comment. Also Maria for your comment on Zodiac. I know that Jake is a great actor no matter what the role asks for, but I think you can tell that he is comfortable around children and that this is something he plans for himself as well (at least that's what I like to think). And I agree that you can read so much on Jakes face what Jack is feeling at the moment, this is why I bonded with Jack more than Ennis. With Ennis you're never quite sure and if you are that it's usually something painful. Maybe it's because I like to think of myself as someone outgoing and looking for the good in each situation instead of dwelling on the bad. And I think Jack is like that too. He knows his life is far from perfect, but he tries to make the most of it and I can totally understand why he gets so mad at Ennis on their last meeting (I wish I know how to quit you!). You're welcome Sasha! I've alway loved how Gyllenhaal bond with kids in zodiac, it jumed to my mind immediately a comparisone with BBM. About Gyllenhaal he's standing the role quite well, he's credible, he's real, he's sensible, he' sesnual, he's dramatic, he's brave. Gyllenhaal put a lot of effort and emotion in Jack, push his charater to the edge, but Jack isn't stereotipyed at all, and it coudl be that risk, but it dosen't happened. I love how Jack-in motel scene- pressing his lips to Ennis ear and whispered, eating his own word, that he cannot be there, in Wyoming, fast enought... Or when he've squeeze his thumb on the back of Ennis's Ennis, while he's holding Ennis before kissing him.... Gosh...unbeliveable..... So much desire and pain, and the last time he've seen Enis all his sorrow comes out, and whent mad cuase he cannot hold anymore sacrifice himself, he's not happy to going on in that way...
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Post by eausavage on Feb 4, 2011 20:05:29 GMT -5
evie - - here we are. It was so painful to watch how Jack's father in law trampled Jack's dignity, humiliated him in every possible way, for nothing. Probably he was very weak man, afraid that he may loose a position/control after his daughter marriage. He was feeling cocky because he had the money and Jack was poor. Jack was too young to fight him since the beginning, he was at the mercy of his wife and FIL. Although he was working for them and was the best seller they had, he never got any respect. Maybe after Thanksgiving dinner he did. And he didn't have any support from his wife. She was too blind to see that problem, or she didn't care or she was to weak to resist her father. I was so glad when he acted like real macho at the family dinner and his FIL was so small at that moment. it could be, but i don't see Lureen as selfish, maybe she don't take Jack's aprts with her fathre as at that time, its' supposed that man handle on his own, or maybe she simply didn't see, or she think that it would be bettre don't arguing with her afthre, as he has helped out so mcuh finding to her husband a job. What i think is that Jack stepfather was afarid that Jack coudl wast all his monye, he has always seen Jack as an upstart, who had wanted to settle with Lureen, and mayeb never loved her, and that's is true.He believed Jack as an opportunist cheapie...so he cann't respect him at all.... But henaftere an entire life finally Jack berak and shoting agaist him all his anger, na take finally his own place in his family, cause at least he's a good father, and an hard worker.
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Post by eausavage on Feb 4, 2011 20:06:39 GMT -5
I thought I didn't want to see it for a while, but all this debating about certain scenes I feel like I have to see it again. very very good Sasha, so you'll have to post again another review he he ;D
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Post by eausavage on Feb 4, 2011 20:10:37 GMT -5
Ok, that's a deal! ;D I feel a need to check Jack sigh during potato peeling scene and try to look at both of them as clear gays as you suggest . And at Lureen, knowing that she speaks by the phone with Jack's lover. I didn't think about it that way before. And I just feel the need to be on Brokeback again, listening to the beautiful Gustavo's music. about the lover's talking between Ennis and Lureen it was a speculations of mine, i'm glad that someone share my same impression.... about potatoes scene take a look:
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Post by eausavage on Feb 4, 2011 20:26:41 GMT -5
So Mermon, we had a BBM date by the looks of it, as I watched it again too. This time I liked it a lot more than the first time around as I didn't have to deal with all my conflicting emotions as much. Also I saw it in german this time (english the first round). Some scenes I understand more deeply now, although I don't want to watch it in german again. There is just something to the original voices of Jake and Heath that no syncro will ever get. Other than that I agree with Mermon on how Jack has put more energy and risk into their relationship. Very touching. ohh 'm very very glad you've pointed as wel as Mermon do, I find that Jack try severla times, in different years to make some change, he holds the realtonship, keep alive their love, he suffer more then Ennis probably as for him it's more conflictind, he accept that his sexuality is different, that he's homosexual, he's stuck in two different places, in tow different reality, way of life i dare to say, the everyday life, the family life, and what he really need, what's his desire are, maybe he've dreamed a different life for himself, with Ennis, but Ennis can't do this step, cannot go over his fear, i know it's hard to say, but Ennis pushing away Jack so many times, even if he proably never have ever realized.... And then Jack finally told about him to his parentes, i think thta Jack's father wouldn't gave to Ennis his ashed as in some odd way blame Ennis for Jack death... Jack's mather is very sweet and including,including, raised almost happy to finally know the man that his son has loved for all his life.The way like he hold Ennis forearms...it's a pain....
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Post by Sasha4Jake on Feb 5, 2011 2:05:25 GMT -5
I got that odd feeling from Jack's dad too, like he knew. And I guess he did. Parents sometimes got a pretty good feel on their kids even if they say nothing (although some parents never know anything they're not told). I think that by telling Ennis that story about the other foreman coming up with Jack, that was the father's way to blame Ennis for Jack's death. Like he really wanted to say "I know that you and my son were lovers. And because you wouldn't be with him he had to find someone else. He had to take another risk and that got him caught and killed. That's why I won't give you the ashes. You didn't want to be with him in live, you're not gonna be with him in death." The second viewing I think Jack's father did love his son, his disappointment that the son just didn't turn out the way he wanted (feeling guilty for having raised a gay son) was more than the love he had.
I guess I can see the movie another ten times and will discover something new each viewing.
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Post by eausavage on Feb 5, 2011 9:13:59 GMT -5
I got that odd feeling from Jack's dad too, like he knew. And I guess he did. Parents sometimes got a pretty good feel on their kids even if they say nothing (although some parents never know anything they're not told). I think that by telling Ennis that story about the other foreman coming up with Jack, that was the father's way to blame Ennis for Jack's death. Like he really wanted to say "I know that you and my son were lovers. And because you wouldn't be with him he had to find someone else. He had to take another risk and that got him caught and killed. That's why I won't give you the ashes. You didn't want to be with him in live, you're not gonna be with him in death." The second viewing I think Jack's father did love his son, his disappointment that the son just didn't turn out the way he wanted (feeling guilty for having raised a gay son) was more than the love he had. I guess I can see the movie another ten times and will discover something new each viewing. I guess for that time it wasen't esy at all handle that your son, expecially a male, as gender, could be homosexual, as between tow man that loves each others there's a lot of prejudice, and commonway, also sometimes everything on which focus the dull, it's just the sexual aspect, and between Ennis and Jack surely there much more then just sex. I guess Jack's fathre know that his son was homosexual, he've sated clearly tha he wish to split from his wife, and that he'll bring there Randa, who's going to split form hsi wife as well, supposedly, to buid tgether a ranch, Jack speack clerly of Ennis to his father, so HE KNOW. Ennis DelMar he used to say....Quoitng Jack's father, so Jack often talked of him to his parents, definitely Jack makes a coming out with them, he was such barve, i love Jack Twist character.....<3
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Post by jakesgirl on Feb 5, 2011 9:35:15 GMT -5
Jakegirls explain quite well this point, thanks so mcuh dear! Aslo i wish to pointed that science cannot explain a lot of thing, like give life, or life itself, like feeling and emotions... Love isn't something that science can explain, not completely... we cannot find explanation for everything, we can only accept those things for which there is no explanation.<3 thank you for your words dear! nice to know you understood my view and agree with you totally! Its very very interesting cause there are so many things that science cant explain! we can only guess...and accept like you said. Its a good thing imo that everything is not explicable....this way we have these lifes mysteries...and it makes life more interesting I've read an interesting interview with Diana Ossana - a BBM screenplay writer. She was answering some audience questions. thanks for posting those interviews! very interesting to read....and straight from writer herself Thanks mermon!!
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evie
Jake Fan
Posts: 449
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Post by evie on Feb 5, 2011 11:00:17 GMT -5
I got that odd feeling from Jack's dad too, like he knew. And I guess he did. Parents sometimes got a pretty good feel on their kids even if they say nothing (although some parents never know anything they're not told). I think that by telling Ennis that story about the other foreman coming up with Jack, that was the father's way to blame Ennis for Jack's death. Like he really wanted to say "I know that you and my son were lovers. And because you wouldn't be with him he had to find someone else. He had to take another risk and that got him caught and killed. That's why I won't give you the ashes. You didn't want to be with him in live, you're not gonna be with him in death." The second viewing I think Jack's father did love his son, his disappointment that the son just didn't turn out the way he wanted (feeling guilty for having raised a gay son) was more than the love he had. I guess I can see the movie another ten times and will discover something new each viewing. It's true for me: every time I watch BBM, I find something new in it that I never saw before, or I consider a new interpretation for something I'd already thought about before. As to Jack's father, I have always had the feeling he knew there was a special connection between Jack and Ennis, probably of the "wrong" kind. But the part about the ashes strikes me more as the father's final punishment for Jack, to deny him his wishes even after he's dead. To me the father is a hard, brutal man. You can see how he has the mother scared out of her wits, and Jack had told Ennis right at the beginning how tough his father was and impossible to please. Maybe the father's attitude came out of his realization of Jack's nature, which he of course rejected, but my belief is that the old man was just a nasty piece of work and nobody could ever satisfy him anyway. The mother is so sympathetic and helpful to Ennis that I believe she understands the situation. Again, the film hints at all kinds of possibilities, but doesn't pin anything down and just gives you enough to let you come to your own conclusions. The scene is written so beautifully and played so gorgeously that it devastates me each time. Interesting (new) thought I just had: Lureen's father is just another version of Jack's father.
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Post by els on Feb 5, 2011 11:47:14 GMT -5
I so much second that, Jakesgirl! I feel the same way about it, Evie. I believe that too. Indeed during one of their conversations on Brokeback, Jack tells Ennis about how his dad never encouraged him in anything, never taught him a thing and never came once to see him ride. Indeed, maybe his father's attitude came out of his realization (and disapproval) that Jack was gay, but even if Jack wouldn't 've been gay, I think he still wouldn't 've been a kind and loving father to him, because -I agree with you- his father is a hard man, hard to please too... About Jack's mother I also agree with you: she is a sweet, loving, understanding woman, but unfortunately she's suppressed by her husband...
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Post by mermon on Feb 5, 2011 11:57:27 GMT -5
MrsJakobGyllenhaal - it's nice that we both have watched BBMat the same time. Almost like a cinema for two. eausavageI think Jake was doing his best to be a family man. They didn't show us too much, but from what we saw he has a bond with his son, he respected his wife, he was very nice at the beginning of Thanksgiving Day, trying proudly to cut the turkey, before his FIL has stopped him, he looked happy watching his newborn son, till his FIL didn't push him away. I think that despite his homosexualism he tried his best to have normal family. If his FIL would be a nice guy they could have completely different, quite nice life. Jack was a warm, sensitive, tender person. He was missing Ennis terribly because of his love to him and his longing for him. And he couldn't find a peace at his own home. I am so sorry for him. His life was just miserable. That's why he was drinking and became a bitter man. If his father in law knew about his sexual orientation he would have killed him, so we could guess he didn't know. So he should respect him, give them a chance for happy life. But he was selfish, he didn't do it even for his daughter and grandson.
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Post by mermon on Feb 5, 2011 12:06:42 GMT -5
eausavage - thank you for that beautiful "peeling potatoes scene". I was listening and looking carefully for that sigh and I didn't hear/see anything. All I've noticed - Jake was inhaling through slightly open mouth, because of his cigarette. I tried to do it myself, when I was smoking, and it's not so easy. The smoke gets into your eyes and it's difficult to breath. Jack did it perfectly, looking beautiful. He was aware of Ennis nakedness, but he behaved completely properly.
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Post by els on Feb 5, 2011 12:14:35 GMT -5
My interpretation about Jack's father-in-law is that I think he just didn't respect Jack because he knew Jack was poor and came from another "class" than his daughter, I think he thought Lureen married "beneath" her, marrying this "poor" guy. He never accepted Jack and never showed him some respect. He looked very much down on Jack and whatever Jack would've done, nothing could ever change the father-in-law's pov... I love the Thanksgiving scene where Jack finally lets all his anger out against his father-in-law! But I also think it's such a sad scene, seeing Jack so angry and bitter, it breaks my heart... The sigh is there allright, imo, but it's a very silent one, and very subtle... I think it's another one of those examples of the extraordinary way of acting from Jake, I so much admire... so subtle, with feeling and eye for detail!
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Post by eausavage on Feb 5, 2011 12:17:05 GMT -5
Jakegirls explain quite well this point, thanks so mcuh dear! Aslo i wish to pointed that science cannot explain a lot of thing, like give life, or life itself, like feeling and emotions... Love isn't something that science can explain, not completely... we cannot find explanation for everything, we can only accept those things for which there is no explanation.<3 thank you for your words dear! nice to know you understood my view and agree with you totally! Its very very interesting cause there are so many things that science cant explain! we can only guess...and accept like you said. Its a good thing imo that everything is not explicable....this way we have these lifes mysteries...and it makes life more interesting thanks so much really for your world, i speack as science lover as progressive, it hepled so mcuh with disease and a lot of things, true is that we cannot find a very good explanation for everything, so the best thing we could do, is try to live better, and enjoy our everyday life life, small thing and accept that most of the stunning living thing called Human being is moslty not explicable!<3
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