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Post by jakesgirl on Feb 3, 2011 12:02:37 GMT -5
jakesgirl - I am not sex expert, I may be wrong. I think that in early teenage years were you are not stable yet, with subtle sexuality still waiting to have its full power, young people shouldn't experiment with it. In modern times when nothing is forbidden, many staff are allowed, when alcohol and drugs are so common is easy to loose your right path. Youngsters make fun of it, play with it. They don't care. Everything mixes up. And maybe it's not possible to become a real gay, but a person, who can do both things without thinking to much about it. Sex is sex. It gives you a pleasure. If the pleasure comes from the person from the same sex is still a pleasure. I am a mature person, when I was very young, those things were very mysterious, it was easier to grow straight. Now it's treated too light, I think. I know it from talks with my daughter. I think a homosexuality is still a mystery to the science. Im not an expert either so this is just based on my thoughts but....hmm...but I dont think that if you are under influence of alcohol or drugs you can become gay or other things like experimenting can make you gay?! hard to imagine. i see your point about teenager years when your not stable and so on...and some teenagers can play around and dont care much but....i think at the end they know if they are gay and they really go either way...in a way it can be a good thing cause you will know for sure what you like and what you dont like! cause I dont think that just by experimenting you can "grow" gay or bi-sexual. I think its more like other way around. If you are gay or bi--then you want to experiment...find out if you are gay. I also think a person who is hetero does not get pleasure from having gay sex...if you do get pleasure from it then IMO you are gay
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Post by els on Feb 3, 2011 12:05:39 GMT -5
Dear Jakesgirl, thank you so much, that is so sweet of you to say! <3 I am so *blushing* right now! I think -and this is honestly not just because of what you said here, but something I already thought when I read your first messages here!- you are a very sweet, nice, smart person with a beautiful heart <3 !!! *BIG HUG* Els xxx
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Post by jakesgirl on Feb 3, 2011 12:23:28 GMT -5
Dear Jakesgirl, thank you so much, that is so sweet of you to say! <3 I am so *blushing* right now! I think -and this is honestly not just because of what you said here, but something I already thought when I read your first messages here!- you are a very sweet, nice, smart person with a beautiful heart <3 !!! *BIG HUG* Els xxx wooow now im blushing too! your welcome and thank you els i really appreciate what you said. You are very kind! Lots of hugs sweetie!!!!!
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evie
Jake Fan
Posts: 449
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Post by evie on Feb 3, 2011 13:17:59 GMT -5
I totally agree with you! I've always loved that Thanksgiving scene with the TV business and then Jack striking back at the old bully. Yes, there is definitely something indicated between Jack and Lureen that kind of contradicts what comes up in other scenes; that is, that their marriage is very dry and unaffectionate. Not just Lureen's little smile, but the way Jack touches her shoulder as he walks back from shutting off the TV--a private gesture suggesting that he and she share the same viewpoint about her father and the raising of their child. I have always thought that Jack and Lureen got married because she got pregnant from their early intimacies, all instigated by her, and that they never had any other children because Jack stopped having relations with her. I also suspect that when Jack tells Ennis about having an affair with a foreman's wife, the truth is that he's actually doing it with the foreman, the one from the dance. On Anne's comment about the telephone scene: I'd never read that account, but it's very interesting. For me, the scene has always been about Lureen repeating a well-worn speech, a story she's told over and over again to account for Jack's death. We, the audience, already know what she's saying isn't true. (I've always believed that the scenario Ennis pictures as Lureen speaks is really the way Jack died.) The film never delves into what Lureen knows, the way it does with Alma. If Lureen knows what actually happened to Jack, she can't reveal it, of course. If she doesn't, then someone else made up the story and she just goes on repeating it. In the scene Lureen is still in a state of shock, IMO, but also displays bitterness and repressed anger. It's a terrific scene and Anne does it beautifully.
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Post by jakesgirl on Feb 3, 2011 14:19:06 GMT -5
If Lureen knows what actually happened to Jack, she can't reveal it, of course. If she doesn't, then someone else made up the story and she just goes on repeating it. In the scene Lureen is still in a state of shock, IMO, but also displays bitterness and repressed anger. It's a terrific scene and Anne does it beautifully. agree with you. Anne is great in it!! I think Lureen knows what happened....she knows her man was gay and they killed him. fake story is not hers but she knows the truth underneatht it. Also Ennis knows....so he can imagine what really happened. great scene.
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Post by mermon on Feb 3, 2011 14:51:22 GMT -5
I've read an interesting interview with Diana Ossana - a BBM screenplay writer. She was answering some audience questions. One of them was about Lureen: Does Lureen really know what happened to Jack? DS - Well, I’m not sure any of us really know what happened to Jack. I mean, the way that we wrote it was that it would be ambiguous; that what we see when we see that flashback, when Ennis is talking to her, is what he [imagines]....So when we see that scene in the film, this is what Ennis is imagining, his worst fear....... She [Anne Hathaway] asked me, “Did she love Jack?” I said to her, “As you’re getting older in this marriage…” and that’s why Ang had her do the big hair, the really blond, he wanted her to become extreme, because she got bitter and angry. She knew something was up with her husband, but when she’s talking to Ennis on the phone, whatever happened there, we talked about it then. I said, “Annie, you know, you’re not really certain, but you do know that this man, when you’re talking to him, you figure out very quickly that this was one of his lovers, this was somebody that he must have been with because, you know, the Brokeback Mountain thing, and he said, ‘We herded sheep.’
So, it looks like Lureen knew about Jack's being gay. At last I understand the reason behind that blond wig.
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Post by mermon on Feb 3, 2011 15:07:28 GMT -5
Another question about Jack's death.
Was it an accident? DS - Well, it’s whatever you think. Larry[second script writer] and I would go back and forth about it. We would argue about it, too. [Diana mimicking Larry’s voice] “Oh, people got hit in the face with tire rims all the time, you know? It still happens.” I said, “I know.” But you never know. We used to go back and forth. When we talked to Ang about this we felt that it should be left that way.
So that is also ambiguous. Each answer is correct, depending on how we feel. I think it's one of the reasons that movie was so discussed. It left people with many questions. And no strict answers.
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Post by eausavage on Feb 3, 2011 18:55:50 GMT -5
hmmmm...where did you get this idea? I have always thought all gay people are born to be gay...hmm how can you tell if some experience has changes you that much? or did you had that experience cause you already were gay?...how can you tell the difference and how early on age we are talking about anyway? I totally agree, you can't force your nature, othrwise we can have juts some attitude, but indeed there's feelings, your sexuality cannot change, your sexual orientation get defiend in puberty, and just some experience didn't change it, you can't turn etherosexual, if you're homosxual.... you could take some time before you can handle, as isn't easy, i know that it isn't, but it's just something that happen naturally... Nobody, nothing coudl change it, sure try to be happy, and been accepted depends from people...
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Post by eausavage on Feb 3, 2011 19:10:42 GMT -5
I am a mature person, when I was very young, those things were very mysterious, it was easier to grow straight. Now it's treated too light, I think. I know it from talks with my daughter. I think a homosexuality is still a mystery to the science. those thigs wasen't mysterious for me adn i've raised in south Italy, my mother and father always told me that there's poeple that love diffently, and that isn't a crime at all, my father seen Qurelle de brest in theatre so he've done with Brokeback Mountain, and i belive thta my family is quite open minded about it. BTW thing could change your sexual orientation, nor drugs, no alcohoolics, The confusion of younger boys and girls, when our sexuality get defined, is well know as puberty.But other then that your sexual orientation cannot make pleasent something, like having sex with a man, if you aren't homosexual . Jakegirls explain quite well this point, thanks so mcuh dear! Aslo i wish to pointed that science cannot explain a lot of thing, like give life, or life itself, like feeling and emotions... Love isn't something that science can explain, not completely... we cannot find explanation for everything, we can only accept those things for which there is no explanation.<3
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Post by eausavage on Feb 3, 2011 19:18:29 GMT -5
If Lureen knows what actually happened to Jack, she can't reveal it, of course. If she doesn't, then someone else made up the story and she just goes on repeating it. In the scene Lureen is still in a state of shock, IMO, but also displays bitterness and repressed anger. It's a terrific scene and Anne does it beautifully. agree with you. Anne is great in it!! I think Lureen knows what happened....she knows her man was gay and they killed him. fake story is not hers but she knows the truth underneatht it. Also Ennis knows....so he can imagine what really happened. great scene. i really don't know if she knows or not, if Lureen haven't since a while intimacy with Jack surely she'll imagine that he have some othre relatioship, if he've played arund and planning to split her then go with Randall a build a ranch-as Jack's father tolds to Ennis-, maye she could discover the truth, my impression is that she know that Ennis is the special friend of her husband, or to speak out openly his lifetime lover, it's sad and almost shocking at the smae time, agree with you jakegirl that Lureen seem also angry, but then sheve melted when Ennis told her about Brokeback Mountain!
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Post by eausavage on Feb 3, 2011 19:24:58 GMT -5
I totally agree with you! I've always loved that Thanksgiving scene with the TV business and then Jack striking back at the old bully. Yes, there is definitely something indicated between Jack and Lureen that kind of contradicts what comes up in other scenes; that is, that their marriage is very dry and unaffectionate. Not just Lureen's little smile, but the way Jack touches her shoulder as he walks back from shutting off the TV--a private gesture suggesting that he and she share the same viewpoint about her father and the raising of their child. I have always thought that Jack and Lureen got married because she got pregnant from their early intimacies, all instigated by her, and that they never had any other children because Jack stopped having relations with her. I also suspect that when Jack tells Ennis about having an affair with a foreman's wife, the truth is that he's actually doing it with the foreman, the one from the dance. On Anne's comment about the telephone scene: I'd never read that account, but it's very interesting. For me, the scene has always been about Lureen repeating a well-worn speech, a story she's told over and over again to account for Jack's death. We, the audience, already know what she's saying isn't true. (I've always believed that the scenario Ennis pictures as Lureen speaks is really the way Jack died.) The film never delves into what Lureen knows, the way it does with Alma. If Lureen knows what actually happened to Jack, she can't reveal it, of course. If she doesn't, then someone else made up the story and she just goes on repeating it. In the scene Lureen is still in a state of shock, IMO, but also displays bitterness and repressed anger. It's a terrific scene and Anne does it beautifully. quite interestng point about Lureen, i wasen't sure fi she know ro not, but it could be like you said, at first looks she've seems quite boeredn and annoyed by Ennis call, then like i said she've melted a lot, or maybe she've just let out her anger and her fustrations. Agree about the thanksgivn scene i love it!Finally Jack break and make a stand agaist hir father-in-law... Interesting as wella bout the reason why Jack and Lureen got married, adn also i share your point Jack clearly didn't show any further sexual interest in her....
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evie
Jake Fan
Posts: 449
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Post by evie on Feb 3, 2011 21:10:46 GMT -5
Another question about Jack's death. Was it an accident? DS - Well, it’s whatever you think. Larry[second script writer] and I would go back and forth about it. We would argue about it, too. [Diana mimicking Larry’s voice] “Oh, people got hit in the face with tire rims all the time, you know? It still happens.” I said, “I know.” But you never know. We used to go back and forth. When we talked to Ang about this we felt that it should be left that way.So that is also ambiguous. Each answer is correct, depending on how we feel. I think it's one of the reasons that movie was so discussed. It left people with many questions. And no strict answers. Thanks so much for the two quotes from the script writers. They add so much to my understanding of the film (which I have seen too many times to count, but have not watched in almost a year). I regard the screenplay of BBM to be one of the most outstanding and beautiful ever to be produced. I find it especially brilliant in the way it remains faithful to the original Annie Proulx story but also expands it and changes one essential fact so that it works as a movie. The whole film pivots on the fact that Ennis never realizes what Jack truly means to him, or what Jack's feelings are, even while acknowledging the power of their physical attraction. In the story, when Ennis and Jack go to the motel after their 4-year reunion, Ennis tells Jack it took him, Ennis, about a year after they left Brokeback Mountain to understand that he should never have left Jack out of his sight. To me, this is a clear recognition by Ennis of how important Jack is to him. If the movie had kept that in, there would have been no tension in what followed, because Ennis wouldn't have had a strong enough reason to resist Jack's efforts. What propels the film for me is that after the reunion, Jack keeps knocking himself out to be with Ennis and Ennis just doesn't get it. Then, of course, he does get it, too late, as revealed in the two heartbreaking scenes at the end.
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Post by eausavage on Feb 3, 2011 21:33:01 GMT -5
I'd rather prefer that Mermon post as well her opinions with the book quoting, but well nothing new, as i know that book-so called book, at least a simple short story of 70 pages- is different, all the book stoyr are ararnged as you sad to make work a movie. Obivously the movie try to enhanced the difference beteween characters, Ennis and Jack, one silent and introverse also coward, and another more mindend open, more extroverted, more brave. Personally the motel scene could be different, like the book and could make us understand that Ennis miss Jack deeply, but in this way all the pain and tension of the movie, the fight between love, pain, hate, tension and conflic would be comepletely off. The motel scene from the movie is quite interesting, show that both missed each other, they talks, even if shortly, about their each other's lives, what they did in the last 4 years. Even if Jack is more talkative then Ennis as usual. I think that movie it couldn't be different in any way, as for the time, this realtionship coudln't be accepted, so the tracig endind, was to take place anyway. What could be different is that Ennis would be more sure about himself and his feelings for Jack, and maybe he could try to make some step in Jack's way.... I don't like to see Jack as a beggar, or someone that still knocking to a closed door, he miss Ennis, it's just love sometimes you cannot do without even if it hurts....
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Post by els on Feb 4, 2011 3:42:00 GMT -5
you're very welcome, it comes from my heart, many hugs back to you! <3 xxx
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Post by Sasha4Jake on Feb 4, 2011 3:45:47 GMT -5
I have always thought that Jack and Lureen got married because she got pregnant from their early intimacies, all instigated by her, and that they never had any other children because Jack stopped having relations with her. Very interesting thought. Could very well be. I remember that Jake looked kinda happy when he looked at Lureen and the baby but then so sad when the FIL sent him out to the car (on purpose IMO). After watching LOAD again yesterday one quote stuck in my head a lot as I think it fits this movie so well too: Maggie is lying on the bed and Jake is taking her video and askes her what she is thinking and she says: "Just how happy I am in this moment right now. And it doesn't matter if I have 10.000 more moments like this or even just this one because it's all the same. Just that. Right now. This moment. I have this."
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