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Post by eausavage on Mar 24, 2011 9:07:53 GMT -5
Agree that the movie tilte is purey ironic, But, thru i cna understand soemtimes Justine,i cannot stand that much her character, i mean i don't see allway what she've done can be positive or good, maybe she didn't pushed Holden to committed suicide, but surely Justine didn't levae him that much choice, she's clerly worser his life...
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Post by els on Mar 24, 2011 11:04:19 GMT -5
When he sits on his desk, in his room, writing his letter to Justine, he sticks his pensil (or pen) in the palm of his hand. Later, when he sits outside during a break at the Retail Rodeo (pic you added), he opens the wound in his hand again with his finger, and puts a little blood on the letter... creepy really... but I think in his opinion, it's romantic. He sometimes does or says things that are a bit creepy to us, but to him are romantic, like saying to Justine "I wanna crack your head open and see what's inside!" It's meant in a sweet, romantic way, he just wants to know everything about her, out of love and interest, but if you take his words literally they sound creepy... I feel the same way about it, Maria. She didn't think about him, she only thought about saving her own ass (excuse me for this expression , she knew he was unbalanced, but she didn't care about how he felt and didn't think about the possible consequences...
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Post by eausavage on Mar 24, 2011 11:45:37 GMT -5
Do not apologies Els, as it's exactly how i feel towards Justine, she never think that her actions have a negative effect on her life, but mostly on Holden life, i try to explain better, Justine is the most mature in comparison to Holden, Holden is just fragile, lonley, unappreciated, his parents never seen him, as maybe he've failed their expetations, about college as so it goes, Justine well know that he's not balanced, then she didn't find any way possible to stand her own life to slept with him, after seducing him?Too much easy in my pov. Justine get everything he wants in the end. She has a child, save her marriage, she saves her credibility, keeps her job, but to what price? Too much easy for her fix the things that went wrong in her life, if she really wish to change something she has to think twice and try to talkes with her husband. About the blooding and pencil scene, i don't find that much creepy, the converse very very romantic. It 's a metaphor often used in ancient literature, signing with the blood of the letters, them would have been of love or alliances, or as token of honor. I think this symbolizes the visceral feelings that Holden feels, and also the sense of emptiness after losing the love of Justine.
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Post by els on Mar 24, 2011 11:51:35 GMT -5
To me it comes across as kind of creepy, but I know he means this in a romantic way (like I said in my earlier message ... Yes I didn't look at it that way (the metaphor), very interesting Maria, thanks for bringing that up! <3 Yep I feel the same way about it. It's not fair that Holden must pay for everything -with his life!- and Justine gets away with it and gets her life back. If I would be in her place, I know I wouldn't be able to live with myself or look my husband in the eye, if I wouldn't at least be so decent to tell the truth... It would eat me up inside.
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Post by eausavage on Mar 24, 2011 11:59:26 GMT -5
I guess that everyone have a different approach to the movie, and towards some scenes, so i understand that mostly find that creepy, i'm glad to pointed out something unsual really!Thanks for the compliments Els!
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Post by els on Mar 24, 2011 12:03:50 GMT -5
You're welcome, Maria, I like it very much that you brought that up, it really adds to the content and understanding imo, I love that <3
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Post by eausavage on Mar 24, 2011 12:10:57 GMT -5
It's something that jumped into my mind immediately as i've linked that sceen to ne seen in Edward II movie, in that movie Edward sign the letter with which his lover were exiled with his tears, and his counselor added, "would also have to sign it with blood"
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Post by els on Mar 24, 2011 12:13:20 GMT -5
Haven't seen that movie, it's always nice to get to know about interesting things
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Post by eausavage on Mar 24, 2011 12:20:29 GMT -5
Derek Jarman was the director of this movie, but it coudl be odd for some way, as there's a lot of homosexual scenes, and some others are qute dramatic and disturbed, it was an old friend of mine to university that bring me in theatre to seen it, but it was hard to understand compeltely the meaning of the story, thue it's a good movie, but it is very theatrical and charged as the type of director cut.
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Post by mermon on Mar 24, 2011 14:53:06 GMT -5
As I said before, I watched GG only once, long time ago, but as I remember that, I think, Justine felt relieved after Holden's suicide. At that moment Holden became a complication in her life, an obstacle in going back to normal life. She was more mature than him, but not mature or wise enough to predict the consequences of involving in romance with that type of an unstable man. It overwhelmed her and I think his death freed her. I'm just wonder what kind of a child Holden's baby will be. Over sensitive? Will be able to adjust to this complicated world. I hope so. They could make a sequel with Jake playing Holden's son after twenty something years. With aged Jennifer playing his mom. Showing how similar son is to his real father, but a bit more stable with different parents. What do you think? ;D
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Post by Sasha4Jake on Mar 24, 2011 15:04:42 GMT -5
I like your idea, Mermon, especially as it would have Jake in it!
As for the blood thing, I agree with Maria and Els that it was probably meant romantically by Holden, but overall he just scared me. All the time I kept thinking like I was Justine: Why did I start this affair to begin with, how stupid, stupid, studid of me. Now how am I going to get rid of him (Holden) without completly destroying what little life I have left? Because, as miserable as my life may feel, it's the only life I got and I do have a responsability for that child too, whoever his father be.
I think Justine tried to find a simple way out by telling Holden's parents to take him to a mental institution. Which I think might not have been the worst choice for Holden. In the deleated scenes we see how Justine tells Holden that she will definately be at the motel the next day to leave with him. He tells her that he will find her if she doesn't show up. I guess that's a reason why she seems to be reliefed when she hears about his death, knowing he can't come after her now.
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Post by mermon on Mar 24, 2011 15:29:44 GMT -5
- that's interesting. I wish I had a film with those deleted scenes. I saw GG on-line only. I wonder what he would do if he would have find her. I just can't believe he could do any harm to her. But in desperation, who knows, maybe he would kill her and then himself. A kind of romantic, common passing away.
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Post by Sasha4Jake on Mar 24, 2011 15:34:09 GMT -5
Els seems to be pretty certain that Holden could never hurt anyone, but I felt threatened by him a lot. I am not even sure what the director and more so Jake were aiming for - threatening people or just being a distrubed teen. But could very well be that I was so consumed by feeling with Justine that I had no eye for Holden (as Justine herself didn't have). I really need to watch it again and pay attention to Holden only.
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Post by mermon on Mar 24, 2011 15:37:18 GMT -5
MrsJakobGyllenhaal - - Yes! That's very interesting movie. I'm really wonder how you will like it and what do you think about it. Once again - you are lucky girl to have so many Jake's movies to watch. I think we started at the same POP time. And I swallowed everything I could find in very short time, cause I watched it on line. And I regret, now I have nothing to watch. But I just couldn't resist.
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Post by Sasha4Jake on Mar 24, 2011 15:46:49 GMT -5
And I swallowed everything I could find in very short time, cause I watched it on line. Did you find Highway online too? Cause this movie seems to be so wired that I want to see it before I choose to buy it. I know, I want to see them all at once too, but I try to make myself wait.
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