|
Post by Sasha4Jake on Feb 1, 2011 16:41:33 GMT -5
Jack pulls Ennis's hand beteween his legs to make him feels how much Jack is excieted, I'm such a dork - I didn't get that he was doing THAT. I thought that he was just trying to cuddle up, that's why I didn't get how they could go from nothing to having sex so quickly Man, I am more girlscout than I thought ;D Thanks for pointing that out! I found a better quality upload and will watch it tonight or tomorrow. Don't want to miss another detail like above. I will let you know girls know what I think about it.
|
|
|
Post by eausavage on Feb 1, 2011 19:16:26 GMT -5
Yep, I agree with you both; I think it's so unfair... You've described the first tent scene very well, Maria Indeed, it's rough and fast. The sexual tension has been building up until that moment (there are lots of non-verbal signs that show that the two men are attracted to eachother) and Jack is the first one to make a real "move" (pulling Ennis's hand between his legs), first Ennis is reticent, but Jack takes his head between his hands and they look at eachother and then Ennis gives in to his desire, he's a rough guy, so their first sexual experience is very rough as he takes over the initiative... I love that scene, I think it's very exciting I also love the second tent scene very much, as Maria says, it is indeed slow, tender, soft, loving, and it shows not only desire but also the real deep love they feel for eachother, and it's Jack who's "leading" this time... Unforgettable, beyond beautiful! <3 agree on the oscar side, it's such sad.... WOW Els thanks so much really for all, you make me blushing! I've alwys think that Jack first time try to kiss Ennis, but then desire step over him, and unbuttoning his pants, it was like Jack trying to make understand to Ennis how going on, as to urge him to act without fear of consequences.I've alwasy think that as Jack openly do offer himself as bottom, he has have some sexual experience previously, but this is just a personal speculation. The second tent scene in tend as i've said was the opposite, more slow, more sweet, like this time both wish to enjoy every single moment....<3
|
|
|
Post by eausavage on Feb 1, 2011 19:21:14 GMT -5
I love bbm! and agree with you people with everything you have said. I looove looove the script! You can see why it took so long to write it...its exceptionally great, eventhough english is not my mother language so...dont know if Im the right person to jugde but just my opinion. and I also thinks bbm is very well directed. You can see Ang Lee has "the eye" for great shots! He also brought the best out of Jake and Heath. After seeing this movie I was amazed with Heath cause I really didn know much of him and didnt know he could act like that!!! And of course Jake is really good in it too! And the scenery!!!! its is breathtakingly beautiful- I love nature and I totally fell in love with canadian nature after seeing bbm. Want to go there someday. Looks like a place where I could be happy. Dear do not worry i guess understanding a movie have nothing to do with mother language, i'm italian and i'm here speaking my mind about the meaning of this movie.<3 I love how Ang Lee make Gyllenhaal gorgepus in every single scene, his charatcter is amazing, credible not sterotipyed, so quite credible,also he was such brave in the tent scene.... amazing performance really! Agree with you about canadian nature, really stunning places...
|
|
|
Post by eausavage on Feb 1, 2011 19:23:13 GMT -5
I didn't like the book from Annie Proulx that much, because it's way to short for my taste, I LOVE to get to read many details, so I can totally get "into" the story and the characters; unfortunately the book doesn't contain much details. Sadly i don't like too much the book too, i share your same thoughts about it, BTW it's just a short story, maybe if it was a book, a bit more longer i could be different.
|
|
|
Post by eausavage on Feb 1, 2011 19:31:03 GMT -5
Jack pulls Ennis's hand beteween his legs to make him feels how much Jack is excieted, I'm such a dork - I didn't get that he was doing THAT. I thought that he was just trying to cuddle up, that's why I didn't get how they could go from nothing to having sex so quickly Man, I am more girlscout than I thought ;D Thanks for pointing that out! No sasha do not worry at all, i've pointed juts to make more clear why Ennis react in that way, and jumped away from Jack immediately.Also Jack made quite clear his intentions when he open his pants... I found a better quality upload and will watch it tonight or tomorrow. Don't want to miss another detail like above. I will let you know girls know what I think about it.[/quote] Actually there's two BBM upload on YouTube, i'm not sure that one is compelte, there's also an adated verison in german langauge, not sure it comes handy! Do not owrry at all about the missing deatils, the first tet scene is fast and quite foggy, little light, so everyone could get wrong and missi something! Pleazeeee share with us your opinion, i'm sure it will be very very interesting!
|
|
|
Post by els on Feb 1, 2011 20:38:54 GMT -5
Very interesting interpretation, Maria It's so nice to be able to share our thought here about this amazing movie My interpretation is that after Ennis pulled away from Jack, Jack doesn't want him to pull away, so he holds his face and looks right into Ennis's eyes, and it's all sexual tension between them and then when Jack feels that Ennis really does feel the same way about him as he does about Ennis, he takes off his belt and pants, and then suddenly Ennis's sexual desire takes over big time, and well yes the rest we know hehe - So I didn't feel like Jack tried to kiss Ennis, I felt a lot of sexual tension between them, which after the "electric looking at eachother", resulted into the sex...
|
|
|
Post by eausavage on Feb 1, 2011 20:54:44 GMT -5
Interesting too, i've always felt the sexual tension, but even if Jack staring Ennis straight into his eyes, Jack moved his head a bit, pushing his face very very close to Ennis, so indeed there's sexual tension, and also desire, as Jack is already sexually aroused, but as he move his head, pushing his forehad agaist Ennis's one, it's probably that he try to kiss Ennis as well, of course it's just my opinion, it could be that your're right! Thanks so much to find interesting my point about the previous sexual experince of Jack! <3
|
|
|
Post by Sasha4Jake on Feb 2, 2011 4:48:05 GMT -5
All right girls, here it goes, I've seen the movie.
In order to understand my view you should know that I was raised in a very catholic household with "old fashioned" morals. All throughout my childhood I have been told that there is only one place where sex is appropriate and that be in a marriage between man and woman. This resulted in me getting married as a virgin (which I don't regret). From my liking LAOD so much you can tell that I am not prude or anything, but some things just stick to the back of your head a long time...
That's why I didn't watch BBM for so long. I was not sure I could really enjoy it.
So finally, what did I think of the movie? It's special to say the least. The part that made me upset is that both Ennis and Jack cheated on their woman. Not because they were gay, just for them cheating. It would have upset me just as much if Ennis had cheated on Alma with a woman. I find Ennis betrayal worse than Jake's because Alma knew. She seemed to be a nice enough woman trying to make their life comfortable and for her having to see Ennis and Jake together broke my heart. Maybe it's because I am married and have little children myself, I don't know. Plus Lureen didn't strike me as the loving kinda woman. I know that's sort of a double standard but I just connected with Alma more than with Lureen. That scene when they first reunite, Ennis doesn't come home for the night and then quickly grabs his fishing things and almost throws Alma jr. at his wife had me crying really badly.
They were both single at the time they fell in love and could have very well stayed unmarried, even if they didn't live together, but IMO they had no right to drag other people into their missery as well.
That put aside - the love story between Jack and Ennis is amazing. Aside from the first tent scene that was kind of uncomfortable for me (mostly because it came so unexpected) the story was told in a very touching way. It didn't bother me at all that it was two men, their love and longing and pain was so real and heartfelt. That's why the reuniting scene is so hard to watch for me. My heart ached with Alma and I cried so hard, yet at the same time I felt so overjoyed for Ennis and Jack to finally see each other again. I had to watch it several times back to back to sort through my emotions.
Heath and Jake are both incredibly believable. The one scene where Jack drives to Ennis and he is singing "King of the Road" - the look on his face is so special. I cried with him on the way back when he couldn't be with Ennis. I didn't understand why he drove to Mexico instead. I mean I got it on a mental level (he had his needs and needed an outlet for them) but not on an emotional level. Guess that's my childhood again. That's why I felt so much for Ennis too. All through the movie you can tell how much he wants to break free, to be as daring as Jack is, but the picture from his childhood, when his dad showed him that dead gay cowboy just never went away enough to let him be who he really wanted to be. I guess that's why he felt so miserable all his life. He didn't allow himself to be happy one way or the other as the guilt for being who he was just was too much. And being raised on strikt morals I can understand why he does that. I'm am over 30 yet I could not sleep with anyone I wasn't married too (regardless wheter I think it's right or wrong). Childhood morals stick with you for a very long time!
BTW - Jake's parents creeped me out. They made me feel very uncomfortable and very sad for Jack. Looking at his room made me cry. What a miserable childhood he must have had there.
My favourite scene is when Jack thinks back to their first summer on BBM where he has fallen asleep standing up next to the fire and Ennis puts his arm around him. They look so happy and so in love and PERFECT. That's what love is supposed to do to you: make the arms of your partner feel like paradise. I wanted to freeze time for them right there.
As for Jack's death I am not sure: did he really die the way Ennis imagines or is it just because of his childhood experience? From Lureen's strange behavior on the phone I would say she's telling a lie and Ennis got it right.
BBM will not be my favourite Jake-movie, I know that. There is just too much to go through emotionally to really enjoy it. Maybe I will watch it again in a couple of weeks. Right now I have no desire though. But all the praise it got was sure worth it. It was a lifetime performance for Jake for sure. He should have gotten an Oscar for it. I hope that he will be able to get a role this important in the near future again.
Sorry for making this such a long post, but I couldn't have left anything out.
|
|
|
Post by els on Feb 2, 2011 5:32:08 GMT -5
Thanks for your wonderful, honest review, Sasha! Yes the fact that the both cheat on their wives is awful... I feel just as bad for Alma as I do for Lureen. Alma and Lureen are indeed a different "type" of woman. Alma is a nice, good girl, who tries to "serve" her husband the best way she can and probably knows from her education. Lureen is more unrestrained, stronger, she has more confidence than Alma imo. Ennis and Jack are also a different "type" of man. Ennis is more rough, Jack is the more loving, softer type. I don't totally agree with you that Ennis's cheating is worse than Jack's. I believe at least Ennis is really trying to build a "normal" life with Alma, he wants to forget the fact that he is gay and he wants to forget Jack. Jack, on the other hand, knows and accepts the fact that he is gay, and he should've known better than to go after Lureen, just because -this is my pov- he knew her father was a wealthy man with a good business... As much as I love Jack, this was an awful thing to do imo. And it's Jack who contacts Ennis again after four years. Of course, Ennis did have the choice of not answering Jack's letter, but I can totally understand that he did, seeing that letter, all his desires and feelings of love are coming back to him, and his feelings are very stong, because he has been trying to hide them for four years... I know it's so sad for Alma (that must 've been very shocking for her to see Ennis kissing a man so passionate and full of love, something he never shared with her...), and also for Lureen (even if she didn't suspect anything), but I so much enjoyed (and still do, everytime I watch it again) the reunion kiss, the whole scene! So full of desire, passion, excitement, tenderness, love... <3 I think his father is very harsh and creepy, not a nice man, but I love his mom, you can tell she's so sweet, but unfortunately she's also a sad woman, I feel for her, it's heartbreaking Indeed looking at his room, your heart breaks. You can tell he was very poor. And on top of it, him being gay wasn't accepted by his father, must 've been twice as hard for him... I can imagine why he was such a "daydreamer"... I also admire him for that, for being extroverted, being honest about himself, always fighting to makes things work... After watching BM the first time, I felt the desire to watch the movie again soon but at the same time I felt I couldn't. It left me with such deep feelings, I cried inside (that's not like me) for almost three days, the third day I was able to let go of my tears... It took me a whole week and then I could finally watch it again...
|
|
|
Post by mermon on Feb 2, 2011 7:07:28 GMT -5
Hi everyone! Since you are talking so deeply about my favourite movie ever, I couldn't resist and had to say something myself. I watched BBM for the first time in June 2010, right after watching and falling for Jake in Prince of Persia and watching Brothers. Both movies had premiere in Poland the same day, 21 of May. Lucky me. BBM is the most beautiful, touching, emotional, unforgettable movie for me. Ever. I never felt this kind of emotions before. I was so sad, wounded, moved, touched after watching, like in the different world, far away from mine. Now, what I think about that film. Jack and Ennis were very young, 19 years old. Ennis was innocent, like he said about himself. Having fiancée, but probably a male virgin. Jack - I suppose was more experienced. Like Jake said in one interview. It could mean he had girls ( he was a bit shy with Lareen, but he knew what to do ) and it looked like he had gay experience as well, maybe previous year on Brokeback Mountain - he was working there already. The cowboys were very lonely, seeing mostly sheep, dogs and sometime the other cowboy. Probably usually they were simple rough men. Those two were maybe the same, but they were also sweet, innocent in a way and very vulnerable. Longing for friendship and love. Especially Ennis, introvert, who lost his parents as a teenager could feel strong need for closeness. We don't know anything about his relationship with Alma before that memorable summer. He didn't seem to be in love, missing her, not at all. Jack and Ennis fitted perfectly - emotionally, as the opposite characters - Jack was extrovert. They became friends before they fell in love. Jack was able to open Ennis, to extract from him what was inside. And it looked, that it made Ennis happy. They really enjoyed each other's company. I think they didn't recognize their feeling toward each other after this first time in mountains, they were too young, they didn't understand what they feel. They didn't know what they feel until they said goodbye. That's life, you realise you love someone if you miss someone and keep thinking all the time. And even if they would, they wouldn't be brave enough at that time to make plans of living together. Impossible. Because of many reasons. For me Alma and Laureen were a kind of obstacle in their love. If they would stay lonely, unmarried it would be easier for them and happier. But they didn't know different life than husband's and wife's, so they just followed, making so many people unhappy. Though I was so sorry for Alma, I thought Ennis place was by Jack's side. I was so mad at him, when after divorce he didn't stay with Jack, though I understood his fear of loosing kids. For Laureen I was not so much sorry, because I think she didn't know anything, she didn't suffer. I suppose she didn't do much to make them happy couple. Those two families didn't look happy, joyful. Ennis' life was a struggle for existence, Jack's was mainly business. When Jack and Ennis were together they had some fun, they were joking, playing, loving. They could be so happy together in different place, in different time. Uff, that's enough! About BBM is so much to talk and write.
|
|
|
Post by els on Feb 2, 2011 7:50:21 GMT -5
Hi Mermon, a beautiful review! I feel the exact same way about it! I agree with everything you said, except for this part: I do think Lureen suffers too, but because she's a strong, unrestrained woman, she doesn't show her pain. The scene where Ennis calls her after he just found out that Jack had died, shows imo that Lureen did suffer, she tries to be strong but in the end tears are welling up in her eyes... And imo it's not only because of the moment itself, but they are tears she has been holding back for a long time... We don't know if she didn't do much to make the marriage work, we don't get to see that much (not enough, imo), and we don't know if Jack does much to make the marriage work. Yes, he is nice with Lureen (as where Ennis is sometimes very rough with Alma, especially when they're having -anal- sex) and he's very nice with his son and likes spending time with him, but we don't know that many details. In one conversation with Ennis, Jack tells him about his dreams of having a ranch together with Ennis, and that he's happy to divorce Lureen, that her dad would love that and give him money for it, and that his marriage with Lureen is one they "can do over the phone". To me that doesn't sound like he's doing any effort to make the marriage work either, on the contrary... I totally agree. It's so unfair and frustrating they couldn't be together because of prejudice, hate, and the fact that being gay wasn't accepted, and even was dangerous (I mean some of them were beaten to death, like Jack ) in the time and place they lived in... I can't help thinking "what if Ennis would 've had more courage..." They could 've had a great life together, they could 've moved to another place -that would 've accepted them- and build a life together... <3
|
|
|
Post by Sasha4Jake on Feb 2, 2011 7:59:47 GMT -5
Oh hi Mermon, I didn't know you were on this board as well! Good for you to start posting! I love your posts on WDW, so good to have you here too! I love your sig. It shows the amazing chemistry between Jake and Annie!
I can't stop thinking about BBM. It's like you have to watch it as two separate person. You almost cannot feel for anyone except Jack and Ennis when the two of them are alone together, but you know what a life they have to go back to.
I agree with you, Els, about Jack going after Lureen for the money. But honestly - they would have never been able to meet at all if Jack was just as poor as Ennis. I think it's the one Jack movie that you can talk about most! After all the concern I had about it I am glad I did watch it. I would have missed something important!
|
|
|
Post by mermon on Feb 2, 2011 9:15:28 GMT -5
Thank you Ladies for nice welcome and nice words!
About Jack and Laureen - They didn't show us much. Laureen had tears, of course. She lost her husband, she lost her dad earlier. She stayed alone with a son and a business. So she was sad, unhappy, but did she know anything about her husband, we don't know. Though, if he was planning to live with another man as he told so to his parents, so she could know. A mystery, not to solve. Laureen was concentrated so much in business, she even didn't remember about child's school. In the book Jack mentioned that his son was probably dyslectic, but Laureen was denying, that something is wrong with him and didn't want to get any help. She was "a daughter of her father", similar. Even after her father's death, she was the one who's got the money and ruled, like Jack said to Ennis. So, I don't know if he could be happy in such a strange relationship when wife was wearing the pants(trousers). Was he with her for the money? Well, she was the one who picked him up in the first place. He was poor, lonely guy, with empty stomach, with no future, no support. And he liked to make out with women as well. The most pretty and the richest one wanted him, so why not. I don't blame him. When he married her, he didn't even know if he would meet Ennis ever again.
|
|
|
Post by els on Feb 2, 2011 9:36:18 GMT -5
I agree with you, you make a very good point there, Lureen being a bit like her father, all "business like", I guess that's true. Jack indeed cared a lot about his son True, she was busy with the business and Jack was there for his son more than she was, but I think maybe she, as much as Jack, felt unhappy too and maybe her way of trying to deal with it (trying to push it away) was to concentrate on the business, something she was apparantly very good at. And indeed she picked him up; he could've said he wasn't interested though, he had a choice... He knew he was gay, and it was clear he was still thinking about Ennis a lot, and he knew it wouldn't work out as a happy marriage, she didn't know... Agreed, he didn't know if he was going to meet Ennis ever again, but that still doesn't make it right to marry Lureen imo - although I can totally understand him, for the reasons you said above. OT: Mermon, I like your sig a lot and I especially like the little text beneath!
|
|
|
Post by mermon on Feb 2, 2011 10:27:10 GMT -5
Els - Thank you els - that text comes from Gyllenhaal's family, as we know, that's how he was raised and that's why he's so comfortable about his body. Good advise for all the parents. eausavage - You described it so well, that I almost feel their excitement! ;D Both of those tent scenes were so sexy, though completely different. I wonder when Jack started to feel about Ennis that way. Was it in the tent, feeling his male's morning excitement? Or before? Somehow I think he didn't plan anything earlier. It was one scene when Jack was peeling potatoes and Ennis was washing himself and Jack didn't even look at him. Would he be able to resist to peak if he would have thought about him in a sexy way? The same question - if they wouldn't drink whisky and get drunk a bit, if Ennis wouldn't stay for night, if that night wouldn't be so cold, if Jack wouldn't invite him nicely to the tent - would it have ever happened at all? Would they have dare to do that without some alcohol in their veins? So many questions. Life is ruled by hazard/fortune. or maybe not? Maybe they would have used the other opportunity? I have to admit I never saw such a powerful chemistry between two people like between two of them. it was beautiful. And Jake and Heath acted it so well!
|
|